Vatican II, as implemented, was a flop. Therefore they can be misinterpreted. if a valid and magisterial Council, V2 is very poor one like Vienne was and is now forgotten. Of course in Mark Thomas's Manichaean worldview he is a right-wing mutineer and sower of confusion. November 6, 2020 Donald Trump and the Politics of Charity by Michael Warren Davis “We are a working-class party now. In terms of the new cardinals Pope Francis has appointed and the key positions given to some of them and the men he has not elevated to the cardinalate, the Holy Father appears determined to ensure that the aims of his papacy will endure after he is gone. THIS MIGHT BE BEATING A DEAD HORSE, BUT HOW HAS GO... SELF ABSORPTION AND THE CORRUPTION OF THE TRUE CHURCH. Z would never put up with someone like him). With Fr Hunwicke scholarship is tempered with whimsy; he delights in paradox and irony, preaches the most entertaining yet thought-provoking homilies, and as a lecturer can hold an audience spellbound when he is the last to speak at the end of a long day.His critique of what he calls 'Bergoglianism' is trenchant but well-founded, and his contempt for the 'ultrahyperueberpapalism' of certain Francis sycophants would have been shared by St John Henry Newman. It would serve the 2 fold purpose of giving MT his own space for his devoted ramblings, while relieving the rest of us of the burden of his incessant hijacking of this blog. Sandro Magister, Settimo Cielo. Praying that happens quickly before you hijack anymore threads on this blog. © Copyright 2020 Crisis Magazine. 3 July 2020 Saint Irenaeus, Bishop and Martyr Dear Mr. Magister, Permit me to reply to your article “ Archbishop Viganò on the Brink of Schism,” published at Settimo Cielo on June 29 . Sandro Magister (born 2 October 1943) is an Italian journalist who writes for the magazine L'espresso. In the diachronic profile there is that of continuity over the centuries, which excludes doctrinal contradictions, provided that the contradiction is correctly identified, in relation to the precise scope of a truth and its doctrinal "weight" (the classic "theological note"). "And it is our task, especially in this Year of Faith, on the basis of this Year of Faith, to work so that the true Council, with its power of the Holy Spirit, be accomplished and the Church be truly renewed. The AP reporter writes that ‘Francis’ obsession with Satan’ is because he has mentioned the devil ‘on a handful of occasions’ within a [...], The apostolic visitation of the Legion of Christ was wrapped up this month, and the contents of the final report will be revealed in late April. It might be a bit severe to dismiss Father Z as a seeker of sycophants. Sandro Magister has a damning verdict on the Pope’s Easter missive to his pet popular movements: Here, made public for the first time, is the full text of the letter. It is only a matter of proceeding on the basis of the "intellectus fidei", putting aside the postulates and apriorisms proper to certain practices that are likely to affect also in the field of politics, ecclesiastical and otherwise. It is evident that on some things it is not possible to settle. "I myself, secluded in prayer, will always be with you and together let us go forward with the Lord in the certainty that the Lord will conquer. Archbishop Agostino Marchetto, author of the second, in diplomacy until 2010, is one of the most systematic scholars of Vatican Council II, as well as a fierce critic of the reconstruction of that event produced by the "Bologna school" founded by Giuseppe Dossetti and then directed  by Giuseppe Alberigo and Alberto Melloni. Copyright 2020 The Catholic Thing. Key phrase: ...“new ecclesial pragmatics" which does not worry too much about this continuity, thanks also to the exorbitant evaluation of the "signs of the times".Indeed. This isn't what Pope Francis would recommend at all Nasone. better article. A strange Easter message, coming from a pope, for a resurrection wholly and solely political. Today, then, we can resort to that extraordinary source of knowledge of Pope Paul VI which is the Diary of Cardinal Pericles Felici, a publication edited by me. 1. Fr Hunwicke has the best solution for all this V2 crisis:"Vatican II needs to be helped to fall out of the memory of the Church, just as Vienne has been. But this does not mean that every linguistic change or every accent shift implies a doctrinal contradiction. At the top of the page, a detail from the mosaics in the basilica of Saint Mary Major, Rome, fifth century, depicting the heavenly Jerusalem. EVEN CARDINAL KASPER SEEMS TO HAVE UNDERGONE A CAT... SANDRO MAGISTER, JUST IN CASE YOU CAN’T GET ENOUGH... O MY! “Holy Father, during this visit … you have frequently spoken of mercy. I ASK; YOU ANSWER. THE NATIONAL CHISMATIC REPORTER (NCR), AKA, SCHISM... BISHOP ELECT STEPHEN PARKES MEETS THE AUGUSTA MAFIA. Papal Style: Caring for Souls while Leaving Doctrinal Exposition to Others, To the Left, We’re the Heretics—and the Inquisition Is Coming. This is especially due to the introduction of "new parameters" or "new ecclesial pragmatics" which does not worry too much about this continuity, thanks also to the exorbitant evaluation of the "signs of the times". This is not the first complaint we have had about it either, and I suspect it won't be the last. In fact, I believe that the current "crisis" from which the Catholic Church suffers is also caused by this abandonment, by the question of its correct hermeneutics, the one announced precisely by Pope Benedict XVI, that is, not "of rupture and discontinuity, but of  reform and renewal in the continuity of the one subject Church ". Heretic’s or Catholic’s, Vatican Zero, this will push the empty suit, MT, over the top. Look at any metric and the Church is far worse off than it was before. Mark Thomas,Thanks for your daily dose of Imodium nonsense. This poor little boy evidently didn't grow up in the 60's and 70's when this nonbinding "pastoral" council was imposed subjectively and gave birth to the great confusion that we are still dealing with. Saint Irenaeus, Bishop and Martyr . In fact they cannot be considered almost as if they were  a new, added Revelation (it was a question addressed in the Council) and here we find the great question of their interpretation, indeed we could say frankly of the critical relationship of the Church with modernity, better, with the contemporary world, with today. Americans coming to Fr Hunwicke's 'Mutual Enrichment' blog need to put him in a context which is quintessentially English. But MT would be quite at home in Stalinist Russia, denouncing 'enemies of the people'. He ridiculed people in Chile who were horrified by a bishop who covered up child abuse.These are not massive ecclesial decisions (like abandoning Catholics in China or wiping out the John Paul II Institute or refusing to answer officially submitted dubia or avoiding transparency and alacrity in investigating a pernicious ex-cardinal), but they are signals. Paradoxically, then, we end up talking too much and almost exclusively about Vatican II, which is a Council already "metabolized" by theologians as well as by the faithful, starting from the next generation: a fairly contradictory position (if we want, even on a logical level) with respect  to the traditional premises of those who profess it. THINK SAINT PETER’S BASILICA BEING CAPTURED AND TU... A RENOVATION DONE WELL WITH ITS FINISHES BUT STILL... BISHOP-ELECT PARKES FIRST HOMILY AT THURSDAY'S CAT... BISHOP ELECT STEPHEN PARKES’ BROTHER, BISHOP GRE... HABEMUS BISHOP! Fr. The use of historiographic methods and criteria with theological-doctrinal purposes seems to overlook the fact that the Council, as well as the documents of the conciliar and post-conciliar popes, are acts of magisterium to be interpreted according to theological and canonical criteria, without confusion of the  investigation. he Holy Father appears determined to ensure that the aims of his papacy will endure after he is gone. "Not in Africa and Asia. THE HYPOCRISY OF THE NATIONAL SCHISMATIC REPORTER. It needs to be forgotten ... left to merge into the Church's general background murmur rather than touted around as if it offered anything whatsoever to help us to deal with Now." Pax.Mark Thomas. Perhaps Lomotil will take care of your " mouth issue". THE "CIRCULAR" OF ARCHBISHOP AGOSTINO MARCHETTO. The other said that although the Council contains grave errors, that we must respect, as well as maintain, the Council.Rome and my bishop, teach that Vatican II is orthodox, relevant, and informs every aspect of Church life. happy holidays, if you can enjoy it! Therefore, this was the dominant one, the more effective one, and it created so many disasters, so many problems, so much suffering: seminaries closed, convents closed, banal liturgy … and the real Council had difficulty establishing itself and taking shape; the virtual Council was stronger than the real Council. Z is a brilliant man and just operates "His Way". Francis’ labeling of people who love the Church’s Tradition as rigid, and the suggestion that there is something psychologically wrong with them is just plain mean. As goes sociology, so goes ecclesiology. I get the impression that he reads all of his comments, but he doesn't have time for a lot of foolishness and doesn't bother with so many of the ridiculous dissents that one might encounter in such a forum (I'm sure one name comes to mind for all of us who post here--Fr. "=======================================================================I stand with Pope (Emeritus) Benedict XVI.His knowledge, deep insight, and analysis of Vatican II, has, during the past 60 or so years, been unsurpassed among Churchmen.He knows what he's talking about when it comes to Vatican II. Sandro Magister publishes two articles, a google translation: I receive and publish the following two letters. Meanwhile, the organization has come forward with an official statement about their founder, Father Maciel, and the future of the order: We had thought and hoped that the accusations [...]. But I think I owe you these lines that touch my "love", the Vatican II Ecumenical Council. Can I ask, do you think Fr Hunwicke’s blog is a similar “echo chamber”? I understand why Joseph Ratzinger, who was a peritus at Vatican II when the Rhine flowed into the Tiber, would be loath to criticize the Council directly, but his postulation of a 'virtual Council' or 'Council of the media' (which media?) Sandro Magister. We even go so far as to say that hermeneutics, interpretation, should be excluded from the doctrinal field. IS VATICAN II THE BLAME FOR THIS AND OTHER ABSURID... FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! Vatican II is here to stay so get used to it (or get out)! I wish that Pope Emeritus had the strength to take on the recent nonsense that Archbishop Viganò and Bishop Schneider espoused in regard to Vatican II.I know that he has blessed us for decades with a wealth of material that has revealed the authentic Vatican II.Unfortunately, right-wingers and left-wingers have ignored Father, Cardinal, Pope, Pope Emeritus Joseph Ratzinger's valuable writings and addresses that have presented unto us the authentic Vatican II.I realize that today, even if he had the energy to discuss at length Vatican II, that the Church's right-wing, as represented by Archbishop Viganò and Bishop Schneider — that ilk — would dismiss Pope Emeritus' presentation(s) of the Council.The left-wing would also ignore Pope Emeritus.But at least among the overwhelming amount of Catholics who don't belong to the Church's extreme wings, those with the desire to encounter the true Council would obtain the truth about the orthodox Second Sacred Vatican Ecumenical Council.Pax.Mark Thomas. With regard to the reception of the sacraments by the divorced and remarried, is there the possibility of a change [...], One Vatican specialist (Sandro Magister) headlined a recent article thus: The Hundred Days of Francis and the Enigma of the Empty Chair. One says that the Council is irrelevant and to be discarded. How about his drubbing of the Cardinals and Bishops of the Roman Curia as a Christmas gift a few years ago? The use of the adverbial phrase "quodammodo" (which, moreover, is typical of the great classical theology, inspired not by the criteria of geometric-mathematical uniqueness, but respectful of the Mystery), however, warns us to draw hasty conclusions. © 2020 The Catholic Thing. Creation, According to Ratzinger (and a couple of other guys), At bishops’ meeting, it’s mostly McCarrick, Pope Francis: Pray that robots don’t turn against us, Two priests on the way ahead after McCarrick. the media coverage of the traditionalist criticisms of Vatican II, with annexes and connections, is quite worrying and in some ways surprising. "But the real force of the Council was present and, slowly but surely, established itself more and more and became the true force which is also the true reform, the true renewal of the Church. Pax.Mark Thomas. All are welome is the mantra you should be chanting not one of exclusion especially of those who don't accept Vatican II anymore or never did. All Rights Reserved. It affects birth and death, technology and the environment, politics and migration, in short, the very nature of man. Anon 10:36 - you can’t argue with Fr Z on his blog because he only allows comments that agree with his views - I and many friends know because we’ve tried. | Italian In regard to the fake Council, the "Council of the media", as compared to the authentic Vatican II, he declared:"We know that this Council of the media was accessible to everyone. And there it was, at the top of his and a hundred other articles, now the most famous chair in Christendom, conspicuously empty, with all around it immaculately becassocked curial cardinals, bishops and [...], Bethany Blankley writes in the Christian Post Opinion website that "The mainstream media is at it again": “‘The Pope And The Devil: Is Francis an Exorcist?’ an Associated Press (AP) headline reads. "Father Hunwicke and Bishop Schneider differ radically in regard to Vatican II. Think of the need, recently defended by me, of the use of the language of "substance" also in Eucharistic matter ("transubstantiation"). I get that. By Sandro Magister — February 27, 2020 (L'Espresso) — The explosion of individual desires transformed into rights for all is a matter of daily news, in the West and beyond. I think Father McDonald is very wise in his assessment. From my studies in fact (in addition to the volume cited above, see also the one entitled "The Vatican II Ecumenical Council. Crisis Magazine is a project of Sophia Institute Press. "It seems to me that, 50 years after the Council, we see that this virtual Council is broken, is lost, and there now appears the true Council with all its spiritual force. Just like alcoholics, we must admit the problem, before we can solve it. AND reading some of the brilliant comments that follow what Fr Hunwicke wrote about Vatican II. Tuesday, July 28, 2020 SANDRO MAGISTER, JUST IN CASE YOU CAN’T GET ENOUGH OF VATICAN II Sandro Magister publishes two articles, a google translation: The dispute over Vatican II is increasingly heated. Francesco Arzillo, author of the first, is a magistrate from Rome who is an appreciated writer of essays on philosophy and theology. The implementation of Vatican II in Africa and Asia opened the door to boom times in said regions.Vatican II, as well as the Novus Ordo, are alive and well in those parts of the world.Pope Benedict XVI, February 14, 2013 A.D. 2. Now, since the beginning of the summer, there has been an unfolding of an interest which is also revealed in conflicting relationships. "I do not think we can follow this method, nor the method of “throwing the baby out with the bath water.” With regard to a legitimate ecumenical Council, even if there were negative points, we have to maintain an overall attitude of respect. Here follows the full English translation of His Excellency’s letter of response to Sandro Magister, reprinted with permission: 3 July 2020. | German It's almost hilarious to hear our resident "expert" opine that Schneider, Vigano and others are sowing "confusion" by finally giving some clarity about what is wrong with Vatican II. I would like to propose that we start a "Go Fund Me" page for Mark Thomas, with the noble purpose of buying this poor rambling soul a one way ticket on a slow boat to China. In a remarkable article published in the magazine "30 Days" in 2010, the great Jesuit biblical scholar Ignace de la Potterie recalled the previous Thomistic according to which "considering the generality of men, all the time in the world, Christ is the head of all  men, but according to different degrees "(" Summa theologica "III, 8, 3) and explained: "But if the words" according to different degrees "and" in a certain way "were not removed from the phrase" Summa theologica "and from the phrase" Gaudium et spes ", all the data of the Catholic faith would not be respected. I will not report here, but instead two remarks, namely that there is no mention of the need for non-rupture (accepted instead from the extreme positions radicalized after Vatican II, with weakening of the intermediate interpretation, that is to say, of the "et ... et"  hermeneutics, that is the so-called "traditional", a quite different category than those who are called "traditionalists") and little emphasis is given to the "continuity of the one subject Church". Look at any metric and the Church is far worse off than it was before. | Portuguese, Quartet for the End of Time by Olivier Messiaen. In terms of the new cardinals Pope Francis has appointed and the key positions given to some of them and the men he has not elevated to the cardinalate, t he Holy Father appears determined to ensure that the aims of his papacy will endure after he is gone. Dear Mr. Magister, Permit me to reply to your article “Archbishop Viganò on the Brink of Schism,” published at Settimo Cielo on June 29 . That’s the future.” — Senator Josh Hawley I’ve held off on writing a post-election column, hoping against hope that the votes would be counted quickly and fairly. All rights reserved. He’s going to have bad days. Site designed by Hyperdo Media. An opinion: the letters are too long and complicated for the casual reader to understand. Among them, a criterion of diachronic and synchronic totality must certainly be recognized. | Spanish Pierre said..."Vatican II, as implemented, was a flop. First of all, there is an emphasis on the Council as an "event": with a singular methodological subordination to the well-known concepts of progressive brand (of the "Bologna school" but not only). THE LETTER OF THE THEOLOGIAN FRANCESCO ARZILLO. Indeed, we went into the factual, claimed reception of the Great Synod, skipping the intermediate step of hermeneutic weighting. on which all the evil consequences of Vatican II can be pinned is singularly unconvincing.However, these remarks were made only three days after the shock announcement of his abdication, and the clarity of expression which characterized most of his discourse as Pope was on this occasion lacking. In fact there is a novelty: I want to say that up to the beginning of this summer there were many who testified the fall of interest - let's say so - for the last Great Synod, despite my high lai. I suppose that was naïve. April 16, 2020. The problem therefore is not the fact of interpretation, but the identification of the related criteria. Many of you were angry that he referred to Joe Biden as the second Catholic [...], On the plane, on the way back from Brazil, the journalist Gianguido Vecchi, of Corriere della Sera asked Pope Francis the following question. I will listen to their voices in regard to Vatican II.Father Hunwicke, Archbishop Viganò, and Bishop Schneider sow confusion and promote mutiny in regard to the Second Sacred Vatican Ecumenical Council. THE COASTAL REGION OF GEORGIA REPORTS COVID-19 STA... SHOULD THE CHURCH CONTINUE TO KOWTOW TO THE STATE ... TOO HIGH, TOO LOW OR JUST RIGHT? Francis scoffed at a spiritual bouquet people offered him. THIS MAN DOES NOT SPEAK WITH FORKED TONGUE. Both on the issue - now more disputed than ever - of the Second Vatican Council. THIS MAKES SENSE TO ME, BUT HOW ABOUT YOU? H,Are you saying Father Z's blog is just like Pray Tell where only the sycophants remarks are allowed? Fr H, if what you wrote above is true about Fr Z’s blog, we should be even more grateful for this blog, which allows different views and opinions to be stated and discussed. The following is why I adhere to Rome's teachings, as well as my holy bishop, who is in communion with Pope Francis:Father Hunwicke has assured us that Vatican II is "irrelevant," and should be tossed aside.Bishop Schneider said that some "who criticize the Second Vatican Council say that, although there are good aspects to it, it’s somewhat like a cake with a bit of poison in it, and so the whole cake needs to be thrown out. Go hereto read the rest. MY CONTENTION, BASED UPON A TECHNICALITY, IS THAT ... NEW PALLIUM FOR NEW ARCHBISHOP OF ATLANTA? In this regard - as I was able to present better in the first history of the Council's historiography (see my "Vatican II Ecumenical Council. Of course it is true that dogmatic formulas have an immediate sense, potentially knowable by anyone (it is the basis of the common sense doctrine). Acceptance of Vatican II and being critical of one who chronically hijaks a matter what he is rambling about are 2 different issues. No debate, no criticism, no independence of thought.